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Post by elbmc1969 on Aug 31, 2022 15:45:03 GMT
"If a ship is stalled in the End phase, it slows by 1 speed per its Lift rating and loses 1 altitude." 1. Does this mean that the ship reduces its speed by an amount equal to its Lift rating?
2. Does losing 1 altitude add 1 to the ship's speed, per the Altitude Change rule that applies during the Movement phase?
3. Is zero the absolute minimum speed? (It seems obvious ...)
So, a battleship maneuvers so that it ends the Movement Phase at speed 1 and stalls. During the End phase, it falls 1 altitude level and its speed is reduced to zero.
At the beginning of the next Movement phase, the battleship passes its Command test and recovers. However, the Determine Speed phase has passed, so it can't use its Lift to increase its speed. Restarting the engines is the battleship's complete Movement Activation for this turn, so it can't dive to increase its speed. It remains at speed zero.
4. Is the battleship now stalled again, or does it remain recovered?
4.a. What happens to the ship during the End phase? - It stalls again, so it reduces its speed by its Lift value and falls 1 altitude level.
- It's recovered, so nothing happens?
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Post by Eric Farrington on Aug 31, 2022 18:43:58 GMT
First off, WELCOME elbmc1969! 1. If a fighter attacks an airship, does it permanently reduce the target's Point Defense? No, only for any remaining attacks that turn. 2. If multiple aeroplanes attack an airship on the same turn, does Point Defense fire once at each aeroplane or once against all aeroplanes together? Point Defense fires once at all airplanes. For example, 3 bombers attack a ship. The ship has Point Defense of 2. The Point Defense takes two shots and manages to down two. That means there is only 1 bomber left to attack. 3. Same question for torpedoes. They're "fired in batches," but "all torpedoes attack separately."
Yes, so you fire 4 Air Torpedoes at a ship with a Point Defense of 2. Point Defense takes 2 shots, and takes out 1. That leaves 3 torpedoes. They all roll to attack individually, and you have 2 hits and 1 miss. You resolve the two that hit with the Power roll to see if it penetrates the target ship's armor. Only 1 causes a damaging hit. Does that make sense?
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Post by Eric Farrington on Aug 31, 2022 18:53:12 GMT
1. Is it correct that a number of Torpedo boats have Stern torps? This seems very odd. Yes. Oddly enough, it was a feature of some torpedo boats of the era. I tried to base the airship designs on actual WWI era designs when possible. 2. The Izyaslav-class destroyer has Speed 18 bombs. I assume that's an error. I will have to go back and look, but I would imagine that bombs should be 6 and air torpedoes would be 18. 3. The Pilo-class torpedo boat has an operational cost of 8, making it more expensive than any cruiser. That is correct. I used a spreadsheet to calculate Operational Value along with play testing. Torpedo Boats are high in Operational Value because they rarely gave up Armor as they could avoid incoming shots via maneuver and other tricks, while peeling off armor on damaged ships by sniping with their Air Torpedoes. They were able to effectively cause damage and avoid losing it better than cruisers, battle cruisers, and even pre-dreadnought airships. Therefore, they required a higher Operational cost per the formula, and playtesting proved this out on many occasions. 4. The G-class torpedo boat has an operation coast of 9 and it seems dramatically better than the Pilo (turns of 2/90 instead of 2/45, 2 torps instead of 1. Doubling firepower and maneuverability seems like there should be a bigger cost difference, especially since German leadership is a bit better.
Well, as I said above there was a formula to how these Operational Values were created and the ability to do 90 vs 45 degree turns and 2 air torpedoes vs. 1 was only worth 1 full point of difference. Not sure what to say on that one, but I have not see the G-class dominate on the table vs. other Escorts. I maybe wrong!
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Post by elbmc1969 on Aug 31, 2022 20:09:28 GMT
Bump in case you missed the questions on stalling. Thanks for your answers! I like the rules so far (the influences are ... obvious). The fighter effect of point defense (reduces it by 1 for the turn) has to go in an official FAQ. It's just not clear, and it's worse for BFG players. I was comparing the two rules in my head and wondering about the differences. (At least the point defense/aeroplane interaction is nice and simple in CitS!)
I'm thinking about picking up styrofoam blocks to use as the play surface so that I can mount miniatures on very thin rods and portray altitude visually.
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Post by elbmc1969 on Aug 31, 2022 21:42:33 GMT
Any plans for ground defenses? I'm not sure that they make sense for the setting, but I can see some interest in them.
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Post by spielorjh on Sept 1, 2022 15:59:55 GMT
What happens to a ship when it is reduced to 0 Command? I couldn't immediately find that in the book during yesterday's game.
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Post by Eric Farrington on Sept 1, 2022 17:11:51 GMT
"If a ship is stalled in the End phase, it slows by 1 speed per its Lift rating and loses 1 altitude." 1. Does this mean that the ship reduces its speed by an amount equal to its Lift rating? Yes. So if a ship has lift 2, it slows down 2 speed, and drops 1 altitude. 2. Does losing 1 altitude add 1 to the ship's speed, per the Altitude Change rule that applies during the Movement phase? Good questions, as the rules are not clear on this point at all. Initially, stalling just took you to speed 0 immediately, BUT in playtesting we found it was more fun if ships moving just started to coast. WE had a few end up crashing into mountains that way! Hence the change, and perhaps not 100% fully thought out! In our playtest games, they did not. However, I think there could be an easy case to make that they WOULD apply. Hence some Lift 1 ships would keep moving until it hit the ground. 3. Is zero the absolute minimum speed? (It seems obvious ...) Yes, in which case it is just kind of hovering, but if it is stalled it will still lose altitude. So, a battleship maneuvers so that it ends the Movement Phase at speed 1 and stalls. During the End phase, it falls 1 altitude level and its speed is reduced to zero. Yes, exactly the intent. At the beginning of the next Movement phase, the battleship passes its Command test and recovers. However, the Determine Speed phase has passed, so it can't use its Lift to increase its speed. Restarting the engines is the battleship's complete Movement Activation for this turn, so it can't dive to increase its speed. It remains at speed zero. 4. Is the battleship now stalled again, or does it remain recovered?
4.a. What happens to the ship during the End phase? - It stalls again, so it reduces its speed by its Lift value and falls 1 altitude level.
- It's recovered, so nothing happens?
Good questions all around. When the ship is activated is when it makes the test to "Re-start its Engines" so after the stall is resolved, it can complete movement as normal. Note, it may need a Command in order to gain enough speed to stall again at the end of its movement by crash diving, all ahead full, etc. If at the end of the movement phase, the ship has not reached the required speeds or altitudes to avoid stalling again, it will be stalled again when the End Phase comes around again. Hope that clears it up. You can see, that stalling for the big boys can be really bad, and may require resource usage to get them back into the game and not crash. In play testing, we had battleships get "knocked out" by having too much friction and stalling and not enough commands or a skilled enough Captain to get them back into the fight before they crashed. It added to the "tactical" play as there was more than one way to take out a Battleship....
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Post by Eric Farrington on Sept 1, 2022 17:16:13 GMT
Thanks for your answers! I like the rules so far (the influences are ... obvious). Indeed. Long time readers of my blog will see that I find Innovation to be overrated. However, the influences were more than just BFG, even if that is the most obvious one. I also took pieces from: - Man O War - Imperial Skies - Crom - Aeronautica Imperialis V1 - Dystopian Wars - Dirtside II - Trafalgar - Fighting Sail and many, many more places. I am like a magpie when it comes to mechanics.
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Post by Eric Farrington on Sept 1, 2022 17:18:47 GMT
What happens to a ship when it is reduced to 0 Command? I couldn't immediately find that in the book during yesterday's game. Like the avatar! When a ship is at Command 0, it auto-fails any command checks it is asked to make as there is no Command dice to roll. In the case of being a victim of a board action, being at Command 0 rolls causes you to lose, and then damage rolls over into additional armor loss, IIRC.
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Post by Eric Farrington on Sept 1, 2022 17:24:15 GMT
Any plans for ground defenses? I'm not sure that they make sense for the setting, but I can see some interest in them. They were in the original rules, but ended up being cut for space. I provided them to Osprey, and they may appear (along with a few other ship types) in the Resources section at some point. Otherwise, I have started some early work on a Landship/Ground game that would be completely compatible with Castles in the Sky. Therefore, you could use your airships to bomb and bombard ground units, and be subject to Anti-airship fire from the Mobile Fortresses and ground units. This project is tentatively titled Mobile Fortress Verdun. However, unless Castles in the Sky sells incredibly well this would probably be released on my Wargame Vault page in a few years. If you have ideas on where I can source Landship models other than via Brigade, I am all ears.....
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Post by spielorjh on Sept 2, 2022 15:40:38 GMT
1. So Attacker 1 fires torpedoes at Defender 1. Defender 1 fires point defence at the torpedoes.
Later that same turn, Attacker 2 fires torpedoes at Defender 1. Does Defender 1 get to fire his point defences again?
2. On p8 it states that the ship's speed is reduced by 1 per friction marker. Is the speed reduction applied immediately upon placement, or does it only happen in the movement phase? If the former, it seems that no maneuver is happening at all once ships start taking fire. If the latter, it's only leftover friction from the prior turn that affects a ship - two extremely different scenarios.
3. When shelling ground targets, how do you determine what type of "ship class" the target is for purposes of firepower reduction? Do you still lose firepower dice based on your elevation above the target?
4. How does aeroplane movement work? Do they move in both the movement phase and end phase step 1? It says they must both move in a straight line and that they can turn freely. Is the straight line only on launch? Does launch happen in battle phase, movement phase, or end phase? Do they have to move their full speed?
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Post by Eric Farrington on Sept 2, 2022 20:09:57 GMT
1. So Attacker 1 fires torpedoes at Defender 1. Defender 1 fires point defence at the torpedoes. Later that same turn, Attacker 2 fires torpedoes at Defender 1. Does Defender 1 get to fire his point defences again? Yes, you always get to fire Point Defense. 2. On p8 it states that the ship's speed is reduced by 1 per friction marker. Is the speed reduction applied immediately upon placement, or does it only happen in the movement phase? If the former, it seems that no maneuver is happening at all once ships start taking fire. If the latter, it's only leftover friction from the prior turn that affects a ship - two extremely different scenarios. Left over friction from the previous turn. Moving comes before shooting, so unless some friction occurs in the movement phase before the ship is activated to move, it should ONLY have carry-over friction. 3. When shelling ground targets, how do you determine what type of "ship class" the target is for purposes of firepower reduction? Do you still lose firepower dice based on your elevation above the target? Good question. I did not mention it in the rules, but ground targets do not get the benefit of ship class, so that does not reduce firepower. Altitude does still apply. Therefore, for a bombardment to work from the guns, you've got to get low..... 4. How does aeroplane movement work? Do they move in both the movement phase and end phase step 1? It says they must both move in a straight line and that they can turn freely. Is the straight line only on launch? Does launch happen in battle phase, movement phase, or end phase? Do they have to move their full speed? Straight line is on launch, then they move freely. So, an Aeroplane will launch in the Battle phase and move their speed in a straight line. Then in the end phase, they also get to move in the End phase. After launch, they move in the End Phase only. This allows them to get the drop on targets, as they all ready know where they are going to be. For ease, they always move their full speed, but due to how they can maneuver, it doesn't matter so much as they can circle back and move about easily.
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Post by elbmc1969 on Sept 3, 2022 19:27:50 GMT
2. On p8 it states that the ship's speed is reduced by 1 per friction marker. Is the speed reduction applied immediately upon placement, or does it only happen in the movement phase? If the former, it seems that no maneuver is happening at all once ships start taking fire. If the latter, it's only leftover friction from the prior turn that affects a ship - two extremely different scenarios. Left over friction from the previous turn. Moving comes before shooting, so unless some friction occurs in the movement phase before the ship is activated to move, it should ONLY have carry-over friction. Yeah, the rule doesn't state when the speed reduction occurs: it could be at the moment that each Friction marker is placed. Rewrite as: "In the Determine Speed step, the ship's speed is reduced by 1 per friction marker." Add a note or similar text to the Determine Speed rule. Have you seen a lot of cases where battleships just stalled due to friction, especially from massed torpedo/aeroplane attacks?
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Post by elbmc1969 on Sept 3, 2022 19:33:52 GMT
I finally have my first game set up for next week. How many rules conflicts are likely to arise if one player has the blue book while the other has the lastest pre-Osprey version? How did the game go? Any photos?
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Post by elbmc1969 on Sept 3, 2022 19:42:54 GMT
1. The last line of the "Fighters" rule reads: "An airship attacked by aeroplanes gains a friction marker." a. Does this mean 1 friction per aeroplane, or one friction regardless of how many aeroplanes attack? b. Since this is in the Fighters rule, it should read, "An airship attacked by fighters gains a friction marker."
2. The "Bombers" rule reads: "Roll 1d6 for each bomber ... Place 1 friction marker on the target ship." The last step of the bombing procedure reads, "Place a friction marker on an airship hit by a bomber." Just to be painfully clear, a bomber that attacks and inflicts a hit places 2 friction markers on the ship. A bomber that attacks and misses places 1 friction marker. Is that correct?
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